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11/01/19 11:42 AM #4361    


Becky Payne (Shockley)

These are STUNNING! Thank you so much!

11/01/19 06:43 PM #4362    


Philip Spiess

Is the last of the three photos a group of Tibetans?

11/01/19 07:39 PM #4363    


David Buchholz

No, these are members of a Chinese tribe of people called "Bai".  Shangri-la, however is completely filled with Tibetans, and as far as we knew, everyone but us was a Tibetan at the wedding.  Our Tibetan guide said, "I don't care about freedom.  I have clean streets, a roof over my head, and good fresh food."  He attrributes all three of those to the Chinese government.  When you're without those first three freedom is some distance away.


11/01/19 11:25 PM #4364    


Gene Stern

11/01/19 11:43 PM #4365    


Gene Stern

.Rose and I arreived in China on the 24th and will return on Nov 8.  We are totaaly amazed at the transformation of this Communist country becoming a hybrid of socialism and capitalism. We have spent two nights in Shanghai and the visage of this city at night makes Las Vegas look puny. This is our first trip to Chuna but I can see us coming back to witness the growth of this country in the near future.

I met a travelmate who has recently worked with Ken Burns on a PBS special and mentioned that one of our classmates had produced or directed a PBS program but could not recall her name.  Do any of you recall the name of that classmate?

11/02/19 07:57 AM #4366    


Paul Simons

Gene you and your wife look fabulous! Re: the PBS series - the one I know of, and it was/is excellent, “The Story Of God with Morgan Freeman” put together by Mary Benjamin. I can’t get the Youtube widget to work on this iPhone but it’s there on YouTube.


11/02/19 11:42 AM #4367    


Jeff Daum

Really nice story telling images David.  Well done.  Thanks for sharing.

11/02/19 01:40 PM #4368    


Gene Stern

Thank you Paul for reminding me that Mary Benjamin was the PBS producer/director. David, your comments and photos of China are great. We are on the Yangtze River near three gorges dam. Will be cruising down river to Chunking and then fly home on the 7th🤓✈️

11/02/19 07:17 PM #4369    


Philip Spiess

[A cultural footnote on the name "Shangri-La":

The name originated with the British novelist James Hilton in his 1933 novel Lost Horizon; he loosely based his Utopian novel on two 1840s travelogues about Tibet in the British Museum library.  The novel, being very popular, was immortalized in Frank Capra's 1937 film, Lost Horizon, starring Ronald Colman, H. B. Warner, and Sam Jaffe; the film was remade in 1973 as a semi-musical with much less success, starring Peter Finch, John Gielgud, and Charles Boyer.  (The much-remarked on sets were remade from King Arthur's lath-and-plaster castle in the 1967 film version of the Lerner & Lowe musical, Camelot).

On another front, Herbert Hoover's presidential fishing camp on the Rapidan River in Shenandoah National Park, on the Skyline Drive, Virginia (which can still be visited at certain times during the summer), was inaccessible to the wheel chair-bound Franklin Delano Roosevelt, so he established a new presidential camp outside of Washington, D. C., in the mountains near Thurmont, Maryland; he named the camp "Shangri-La" after the popular Hilton novel.  President Truman apparently kept this name, but when Dwight Eisenhower became president in 1953, he renamed the presidential camp "Camp David" after his grandson, David Eisenhower (married to Julie Nixon).  That name stands to this day.

On yet a third front, the People's Republic of China, recognizing the financial benefits of American tourism in China, in 2001 renamed its county of Zhongdian, in Yunnan province, "Xianggelila," which apparently means "Shangri-La" (or its equivalent) in Chinese.  But apparently other parts of Yunnan and Sichuan provinces, as well as Tibet, have claimed to be "the real Shangri-La."  So Dave, which "Shangri-La" were you in? ]

11/02/19 07:55 PM #4370    


David Buchholz

Quoting a website:

"Shangri-la (香格里拉, Xiānggélǐlā), formerly known as Zhongdian (中甸, Zhōngdiàn) and sometimes 'Gyalthang' in Tibetan, is where you really start to breathe in the Tibetan world – if you can breathe at all, given the altitude.

Home to one of Yunnan’s most important monasteries and surrounded by mountains, lakes and grassland, it's also the last stop in Yunnan before a rough five- to six-day journey to Chengdu via the Tibetan townships and rugged terrain of western Sichuan.

The town is divided into two distinct sections: the larger modern side and the old quarter. A devastating fire in January 2014 sent much of the old town up in smoke, but it's now been almost completely rebuilt."

The 'if you can breathe at all' from the website is telling.  We've hiked to Machu Picchu, taken the Jomsom trek on the Annapurna Circuit through the Himalayas, and above the Nepali town of Muktinoth, climbed to 15,000' where the altitude finally got to us.  We stopped at a guest house advertising "hot showers" and asked the guests who were lounging in the patio, "How are the showers?"  They responded, "We don't know.  The pipes haven't thawed out yet."  12,000' is nothing.

11/03/19 07:52 PM #4371    


Nancy Messer

Dave - I can't say it any better than Becky.  The collection is STUNNING.  The photos are so crisp and clear that I feel like I'm standing there right next to you.

11/03/19 10:17 PM #4372    


Steven Levinson

Great pix indeed, Dave.

Gend, I think Mary B. is listed in the credits of the God series as the senior reseacher.


11/07/19 01:08 PM #4373    


Stephen Dixon

Congratulations, Larry!

I, too, can shoot my age. But it is in bowling, not golf.

11/11/19 06:38 AM #4374    


Paul Simons

Happy Veterans Day - a couple of links for vets and for all -

11/11/19 06:41 AM #4375    


Paul Simons

And a lighter moment, this one relating to the war our parents endured -

11/12/19 08:23 AM #4376    


Judy Holtzer (Knopf)

I think I missed that one..... thanks! Jack Benny was huge!!

11/12/19 08:27 AM #4377    


Judy Holtzer (Knopf)

By the way, again a lot of rockets being fired over Israel. Thanks goodness, no deaths....yet. Lots of damage to property. There was even a warning siren in my new home, Modiin, this morning. Schools closed from Tel Aviv to the south of Israel today. Over a million kids home.

11/12/19 08:56 AM #4378    


Ira Goldberg

Notice: Paul just hit 73 years. Watch out Willie Nelson. 

11/12/19 05:11 PM #4379    


Paul Simons

  Thanks Ira. Yes, it’s this time of year when I do have a birthday. My advice is to never publicly show an exact date because that makes it one big step easier for hackers to break into your Amazon account and wreck your financials from there. Re: Willie - there’s one rather significant difference which is that I have always had to keep my day job and he was able to quit his. He’s a true hero.  

Judy - glad you enjoyed the clip but sorry about the rockets. The thing that got lost is that for about 150 years European Jews scraped together their sheckels and slowly bought and then settled and irrigated land in Israel and built a society, an army, a country. They didn’t just fall out of the sky in 1948. That’s why, when the 7 Arab countries surrounding Israel attacked the minute the UN formally divided the British Mandate into Israel and Jordan the Israeli Army was able to beat them off. But this history is not taught in the classrooms of Gaza. Quite obviously and quite painfully for all.  

It’s very important for a country, a people to know their history, both the good and the bad. We are suffering in this country from a total absence of knowledge, understanding, and compassion for the victims of our past as a place where slavery was legal - which it never should have been. Never, and economic policies be damned. And launching hundreds rockets at random locations where civilians live should also never happen. Never.



11/13/19 01:40 AM #4380    


Philip Spiess

Paul and Judy:

Nor is this international history taught much of anywhere.  Little enough of our own history is taught, and then (usually) only from one point of view.  (Read how American history texts for American public schools are subsidized, written, authorized by state legislatures and/or state departments of education, published, sold, and used, state by state -- and you will be gagging in the aisles.)

And then there's that slavery issue.  Not only did many Christian (mostly Protestant) preachers (yeah, mostly in the South, but not always) in the 19th century preach that the Bible (and therefore presumably God and Christ) espoused slavery (it was in the Bible, you know), but such claimers of the rights of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" as Thomas Jefferson (who recent history tells us sired children upon a black slave of his, Sally Hemmings) never freed their slaves (at least Washington did, but only upon his death, leaving his widow Martha who knows where?).  An exception to this preaching was the Beecher clan of Cincinnati (originally -- and later -- Connecticut) at the Lane Presbyterian Seminary in Walnut Hills -- all of whom were fierce Abolitionists (I won't go into their history now; you can look it up yourselves), but, as I hope you know, Cincinnati, at the border between North and South, was at the crossroads of the "Underground Railroad," and was its center in the Midwest. 


11/13/19 05:41 PM #4381    


Bruce Fette


When I was younger than today, my granfather told me that the underground railroad included a stop on Cary Avenue in College Hill and the Beecher house in North College Hill. 

Do you have more data on that?

We have also heard much about Hariett Tubman lately on NPR and her participation in the railroad, but little mentioned about Cincinnati's roll.




11/14/19 10:29 AM #4382    


Judy Holtzer (Knopf)

Point of Information in case you would like to refute, at least partially, the argument that there was slavery in the Old Testament, so "it was good"..... 

True, there was slavery, but Jews were required to offer their slaves freedom after 7 years. I said "offer", since I rather imagine that some, if not many, might desire to stay with their masters. I still remember feeling rather lost and abandoned when I left my parental home to go to university in Chicago. Anyone else have similar memories?

11/14/19 01:55 PM #4383    

JoAnn Dyson (Dawson)

Chattel slavery practiced in the US was very different from the state of slavery Judy references in her post.  It is hard to understand where the common ground is between the emotional impact of going to college by choice with its potential, and the lack of choice and the risks of enslavement, sometimes ended because an exploiter of human beings makes the decision to "grant' freedom.  "Slavery" with an end date is really indentured servitude.

There are several works that tell us the human toll of chattle slavery.  From the classic work of Frederick Douglass' autobiography to a somewhat new novel (based on considerable research), Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi.  Today, slavery is still practiced by exploiters  of human beings--sexual and other labor exploiters.  The effort to end enslavement is sadly has to continue.

11/14/19 02:59 PM #4384    


Steven Levinson

Thanks, JoAnn.  Judy, are you juxtaposing your adolescent feelings of anxiety that accompanied going off to college with the comfort and well-being of a cared for slave? 

11/15/19 12:52 AM #4385    


Philip Spiess

Bruce:  I'll have to check into that.  The referenced Lane Seminary was in Walnut Hills; just about all of its buildings are gone now, I believe.  Harriet Beecher Stowe's house was by the campus of the seminary (her husband, Calvin Stowe, was a professor there, and her father, Lyman Beecher, although a Congregational minister, was president of this Presbyterian seminary); it is still there, owned by the Ohio Historical Society.  After many, many years of being closed to the public, I am told that it is now open once again as a museum.

I believe that I have heard of a Beecher house in College Hill; I'll check into that, too.

Harriet Tubman is rightfully recognized as a leader in the "Underground Railroad" movement; she is known as "the Moses of her people."  A new (and very nice, as well as informative) Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad National Museum has recently opened on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, south of Cambridge, Md., on the Bucktown Road by the Blackwater National Wildlife Reserve, and, of course, Tubman's gotten recent publicity as the possible replacement for Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill (yeah, right! -- in the present administration?).

There were four major "Underground Railroad" routes from the South to the North:  (1) the Eastern seaboard route, of which Harriet Tubman is recognized as the principal "conductor"; it went up from Georgia, the Carolinas and the Sea Islands, and Virginia, through Maryland, Pennsylvania, and New York, into Canada; (2) the Ohio/Indiana route, of which Levi Coffin (a white minister) was the principal "conductor" (this is what makes Cincinnati the center of the Midwest UGRR -- and this is why the Cincinnati Suspension Bridge was not completed until after the Civil War! -- Kentucky objected that slaves would use the bridge to cross the Ohio River to freedom), which went up from the eastern Southern Gulf States and Tennessee through Kentucky, crossing the Ohio River into Ohio and Indiana (notably at Ripley, Ohio, where the Rev. John Rankin house is an Ohio State Memorial to the abolitionist who helped many slaves, notably "Eliza," of Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin fame, actually cross on the ice there); (3) the Mississippi/Tennessee River route (no known "conductor," though the possibly spurious, i.e., 20th-century, song, "Follow the Drinkin' Gourd," was a supposed route marker), which wound its way along the eastern bank of the Mississippi River into southern Illinois, and hence to Chicago; and (4) a little-used route, the Atlantic Ocean along the eastern seaboard, slaves traveling by boat, either to Canada or escaping to Europe and/or Africa.

This past Spring I taught a five-week course for our Adult Education program at my church (I am currently the Elder for Adult Discipleship) on the history of African-American spirituals and their origins in Africa, their relation to slavery, the abolition movement, Emancipation, and how the spirituals were appropriated afterwards.  The highlight was the visit and performance/lecture by Sule Greg Wilson, a professional African-American ethno-musicologist.  (Look him up on the internet; you'll be in for a treat!) 

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