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09/07/20 05:15 PM #5001    

 

Paul Simons

The word “Please?” - with the uptalk accent, pitch rising as it’s spoken - does seem to be a request for the repetition of a previous word or phrase. But what about “Please.” in a firm, even monotone or even “Oh, PLEASE!!” in the dreaded, ominous downward moving pitch, obviously meaning that the previous words or phrases are absurd, ridiculous, not credible? I don’t have anything beyond that to contribute except a warning to be sure people understand what you mean because these days misunderstandings can escalate quickly. 


09/07/20 07:15 PM #5002    

 

Jerry Ochs

Paul's comment reminded me of this.

A linguist taught a class at an American university and explained that a double negative could make a positive, but there was no language in the world in which a double positive made a negative. A heckler replied bluntly "Yeah, right." --Keene 22:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


09/07/20 08:30 PM #5003    

 

Ann Shepard (Rueve)

Interestingly enough, this just appeared on my Facebook timeline. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/07/909224971/often-its-not-what-you-say-but-how-you-say-it


09/07/20 09:58 PM #5004    

 

Sandy Steele (Bauman)

Margie,  Elena was a sorority sister of mine at UC. I believe she graduated from Aiken High School. Her husband, Bill, passed away about four years ago. She always gets a group of us together for lunch ( 3-4 times a year) at Camp Washington Chili Parlor. She lives in Florida part of the year.

 


09/07/20 11:47 PM #5005    

 

Philip Spiess

Becky:  You are quite correct that 1953 was the year of the Ohio Sequicentennial of statehood (it was also the year of Eisenhower's first Inaugural and Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom's Coronation -- how she does go on; she's beaten out Queen Victoria for longevity on the throne!).  I had no idea that the O-High-O bit was a song (never heard it), just a riddle.  (All I remember, when it comes to jingles, is, "When the value goes up, up, up, and the prices go down, down, down, Robert Hall is in season to show you the reason -- low overhead, low overhead!")

Margery:  I have just this evening sent an e-mail to Elena Fuentes (if that's whose e-mail I now have; I last saw her about sixteen years ago in the Krohn Conservatory); she apparently went to Aiken, so if I've got the right e-mail, I'll send it to you.  For a while I was in a carpool with Becky Hamlin; her father had been the Librarian at the University of Cincinnati.  I had forgotten about Anne Keating, who I knew well at the time; thank you for bringing her back into my memory.

On "Please":  I don't know whether we have a folklorist or a linguist among us, but our discussion of this subject is catnip to them; I hope they are listening (or reading).  I've never been identified as a Cincinnatian by using "Please" (as I've noted above, despite Miss Scarborough's best efforts, I've never used it), but once, in the 1970s (I think it was), at a wedding party in White Plains, New York, while dancing with a young lady from my (now) wife's graduate class at Cooperstown, New York, a distinguished elderly woman observing from the sidelines suddenly tapped me on the shoulder and said, "You're from Cincinnati, aren't you?"  Surprised, I said, "Uh, yes," and she said, "I knew it!  Only boys from Cincinnati dance that well!"  I was taken aback by this information, not thinking that Cincinnati was known as a dancing town, otherwise I would have quizzed her further about her knowledge; I knew Madame Federova's was legendary locally, though I myself had attended the George Gallus (am I getting this right?) dance studio.  (It was, no doubt, my superb cha-cha that tipped her off, though my Viennese waltz is, or was, exemplary.  Or maybe it was the Charleston.)

And now to more local linguistics:  In the years when I was Research Associate at the Cincinnati Historical Society in Eden Park, we received an inquiry about two terms, which the inquirer claimed were supposed to be strictly local to Cincinnati, and wondered if that was true; he also wondered what the terms really meant.  Those terms were "Jack salmon" and "pony keg."  The staff, stumped, promptly turned the question over to me (that's what I was being paid for).  And first, because I could not find nor establish more than local lingusitic use for these terms, I assumed that they were, indeed, local to Cincinnati.  Second, after some intense but stultifying research (read:  "dead end"), I more or less established that "Jack salmon" referred to the "walleyed pike," which is not, in fact, a pike, let alone a salmon, but a perch (well, huh!), according to The New Food Lover's Companion (4th Edition). As to "pony keg," the term "pony" is well known to tipplers, bartenders, and mixologists alike, as being a 1-ounce bar measure -- but this did not explain the term inquired about.  Only research on the ground around town determined (and this provisionally) that the term "pony keg" applied to stores that supplied beer and wine (stronger spirits being restricted to sales at the Ohio State liquor stores) and ice in quantity for purchase to take out.  There was a well-known one for years in Corryville just west of and down the hill from Vine Street, which I'm sure served the University of Cincinnati community (I know it served Clifton); whether it's still there or not, I presently cannot say.


09/08/20 07:35 AM #5006    

 

Paul Simons

Not to try to out-reference Phil - that would be ill-advised - but here’s what Wikipedia says: “A quarter barrel, more commonly known as pony keg, is a beer vessel containing approximately 7.75 U.S. gallons (29.33 liters) of fluid. It is half the size of the standard beer keg and equivalent to a quarter of a barrel.”

There was a fabulous pony keg across the street from the Bond Hill park. It had the beer and wine and also candy, chips, pretzels, soda or pop - call it what you will - and also was probably the purveyor of my first tobacco purchase, a 5-pack of  Cigarillos. Just looking at that word it was likely the first experience of the multiculturalism that some enjoy and some revile. Cigarillos did smell good but in general tobacco is a bad thing. Some say it causes cancer but more research is needed. As Phil says, “Yeah, right”.


09/08/20 09:34 AM #5007    

 

Philip Spiess

Paul:  Of course, the pony keg in Corryville also sold all of the other items you mention (I suppose most pony kegs around town did).  It had a wonderful and distinctive neon sign in several colors, depicting the barrel which you describe.  It also sold "White Gas" for Coleman stoves and lanterns.


09/08/20 11:38 AM #5008    

 

Richard Murdock

Madame Fifi's !!   I had not thought about her and her dance instructions in a very long time.  The mere mention of her name brought back surprisingly vivid memories - of both extreme terror and at the same time great excitement.  I remember getting dressed up in a suit with tie and jacket and then being driven to a large ballroom somewhere for dance lessons with Madame FiFi -  who I recall as being a short older lady dressed in a long black dress.    My memory is that boys were on one side of the room and girls were on the other.  Each eyeing the other with a mixture of terror and excitement.  She would demonstrate a particular dance move then it was our turn.  The boys advanced on the girls to find a partner and I can only now imagine how that must have looked to the girls.  Sort of an advancing horde of young barbarians. 

In the end it did work to a large extent and I did learn some aspects of ballroom dancing and the etiquette involved.  However I cannot remember the last time I used any of those skills. 

Looking back on the process, it would have been a huge improvement if Madame FiFi simply divided us up into co-ed groups of 4 or 6 and allowed us to socialize just a bit before trying out the dance moves. 

 


09/08/20 04:15 PM #5009    

 

Margery Erhardt (Schrader)

Thank you, Phil and Sandy, concerning Elena. She lived in Clifton when I knew her so they must have moved to College Hill perhaps. I did my student teaching at Aiken. Lovely school!

Richard – I believe the classes were held at the Alms Hotel there in Walnut Hills. Madam Federova was a Cincinnati institution. Yes, we lined up in the two rows you mention at the beginning of the class when she instructed a “new step.” But as the hour went on she would allow the boys to choose partners and even allowed the girls to choose…a woman ahead of her time! We girls had fun too. We complained a lot but it was fun to get dressed every Friday evening. I remember one time when my friend (same one I mentioned yesterday) and I tried to climb out the window in the girl’s powder room. I have no idea where we thought we were going but it was fun to try anyway. We got stuck in the window so had to return to the ballroom albeit with some newly found dirt.


09/09/20 03:24 AM #5010    

 

Jerry Ochs

Elderly people and nostalgia go together like peanut butter and .......

that spreadable made from fruit juice and cows' hooves.


09/09/20 08:46 AM #5011    

 

Judy Holtzer (Knopf)

Dance lessons: I did not attend Madame Fifi (although I did have a pink stuffed poodle named Fifi, and STILL have her somewhere in a closet). For me, there were dance lessons at the Jewish Center where we could meet nice young people our age from The Tribe (I believe this term was discussed previously?) and also learn the latest popular dance steps. No waltzing was done here! I remember several class members attending. However, I don't remember who the teacher was. Can anyone help?


09/09/20 08:47 AM #5012    

 

Judy Holtzer (Knopf)

Love your new picture, Jerry!


09/09/20 10:07 AM #5013    

 

Paul Simons

Judy - I was also one of the attendees of the Jewish Center dance classes. But there was another option - a person,  male, who maybe went by just a single name. Like Eminem or Cher or Beyonce or Sting. Maybe somebody remembers. Maybe something like P.B. Like Ice-T. Or O.J. Way too cool for me. They also had a "canteen" night where they'd play 45 RPM records, They never failed to play "Splish Splash" by Bobby Darin. And "Splash Parties" at that big swimming pool. Which I broke into along with a few others who shall remain nameless for a summer night swim in about 1966. Fun fun fun.  Anyway I never learned to do those goofy dances. Fortunately it's now possible  to do something extremely simplistic and still occupy space on a dance floor with a partner at a nightclub or will be again when Covid-19 is over. 


09/09/20 11:57 AM #5014    

 

Dale Gieringer

This is the sky we woke up to this morning.  Looks like the Apocalypse is coming to California. The sky is dark as night now (it's 8:45 on a late-summer morning).    Every day we're setting new records for consecutive unhealthy air days.  Labor Day was the weekend from hell.  It was over 100 in the Bay Area and reached 121 degrees down south in LA.  At least we haven't had any power outages where we live, but other folks aren't so lucky. 

And you tell me over and over and over again my friend
Ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction

 

 

 

          

 

 


09/09/20 12:14 PM #5015    

 

David Buchholz

We live a couple of miles from Dale.  A north wind blew the smoke from the fires directly over the Bay Area, at which point the winds went home for lunch. leaving us with this at 5:45 yesterday

and this, this morning.  A view from my deck an hour ago when it wasn't quite pitch black and orange, which it is at 9:11.

And even worse, Home Depot, Lowe's, and all the other hardware stores have run out of rakes, so we're bound and helpless, unable to rake the leaves from the forests. 

 


09/09/20 01:14 PM #5016    

 

Becky Payne (Shockley)

My older brother Karl and I also attended Madame Fifi's. I didn't mind it but he hated it, and was only persuaded to attend when my dad bribed him by agreeing to work on his model train table on the 3rd floor if he attended the class. I think I still remember the waltz and cha-cha but that's about all.

 


09/09/20 01:17 PM #5017    

 

Becky Payne (Shockley)

Thanks to Dave and Dale for the beautiful but frightening photos. (Please don't try raking leave in this weather!) I hope more people can begin to understand the effects of climate change and take action... Stay well!


09/09/20 02:00 PM #5018    

 

Ann Shepard (Rueve)

I cannot imagine trying to breathe that air, not to mention the threat of approaching flames from the fires.  It's so frightening. Take care!

 


09/09/20 04:08 PM #5019    

 

Margery Erhardt (Schrader)

Jerry, Great pic finally!!! What I remember the most about you is your quick wit and humor. But there was one day where there was no humor. You and I were in Mr. Gregory’s afternoon class, the sixth period I believe, and as we flowed in before the bell, you came in rather solemnly … so unlike you. A couple of us asked you what was wrong and you said, as you went to your seat toward the right rear, that the President had been shot (or died as I can’t remember which one at that stage) and we looked at you and said “stop putting us on.” And then we got the announcement over the loudspeaker. We all just sat there in silence not comprehending what had actually happened. That said, they say none of us will ever forget where we were that day as well as 9/11. I believe that to be true!


09/09/20 06:12 PM #5020    

 

Jerry Ochs

Judy: Thank you.        Margery: Thank you, too, but "finally"?cheeky

 


09/10/20 09:20 AM #5021    

 

Bruce Bittmann

David, having been on your porch (which is wonderful), that really brings your horrible fires and air home.  Sad. And, from the news, the future doesn't look to bright (no pun intended) either.   Hope you two stay well.  Dale, you also. 


09/10/20 09:38 AM #5022    

 

Judy Holtzer (Knopf)

The pictures from California are horrific! How long has it been like this, or close to this?


09/10/20 11:55 AM #5023    

Bonnie Altman (Templeton)

pB was. The name of the instructor at the community center


09/10/20 12:19 PM #5024    

 

Dale Gieringer

  Judy - Yesterday's orange skies were unique in Bay Area memory.  They have faded to a dull smoky gray today.  Cars had headlights on midday;  I felt like I was a driving on Mars.  Oddly, the air quality wasn't  that bad at ground level.  The lower elevation was all fog;  the red smoke, blown our way from 100 miles up north,  was trapped in an inversion layer above.    But as to the larger picture, every day the Bay Area is setting new records for consecutive days with poor air quality.   It's been some three weeks since the first fires started, and now they're raging all the way up the Pacific Coast to Oregon and Washington and southwards to LA.  When I first moved here in 1972, I was impressed by the blue skies and pristine air quality in San Francisco, where the wind blows in from across the Pacific.  Things started going sour around 2008 -2010 and worse yet in 2013-17 when we had severe droughts that killed or weakened gazillions of trees around the state, turning them into tinder.   Then came the CAMP Fire that destroyed Paradise in 2018, and last year's deliberate power outages to prevent further fires.     Meanwhile, California has had all-time record-setting heat spells in recent years, including this month's 130* in Death Valley.     All of this fits precisely the expert predictions about  global warming due to CO2 emissions that I recorded at Congressional hearings on climate research  in 1976.  At the time, they were predicting that warming would first become noticeable in 15 or 20 years, and only get worse thereafter.  By the 1990s it was becoming clear that their predictions were accurate.  Here we are thirty years later, and we still don't have a climate policy or leaders who take it seriously.  Enough said, not enough done - this is just the tip of a huge melting iceberg.

 

 

 

 


09/10/20 02:02 PM #5025    

 

David Buchholz

Once again following Dale...after posting the photo yesterday I walked down to the little shopping area of Kensington and took the following images.  The first is an homage to Edward Hopper.


Drew, taking a takeout order at the Inn Kensington. His business is down 75%, and the Inn, which has been a Kensington Institution since long before we moved here, is “barely hanging on.” Jadyne and I ordered lamb and jambalaya for dinner tonight, planning to wash dinner down with a bottle of Oxford Landing, our favorite cheap-o Chardonnay.  Behind Drew are Picassos, Matisses, Miros, and others.  They change them monthly and sell them at slightly reduced prices. A gallery provides them, grateful for the exposure.

The orange is gone today, and the sky is the color of baby shit.  Perhaps we'll see colors tomorrow that we've never seen.


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