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04/07/18 08:11 PM #3473    

 

Bruce Fette

In response to Gail'scontribution, In N Out Burger did make its way eastward to Arizona, in fact quite close to the Arizona State University campus. And when it arrived, there was certainly a rush to give it a try. They are quite good.  I would say comparable to Elevation Burger here in the DC area. Also in Arizona near ASU is the CHUCKBOX, where the burgers are sensational.

Certainly a different taste from White Castle and from Big Boy too (which has now vanished from Arizona). 

Here in the Northern Virginia area, we also have BIG BUNS (very good burgers) and Best Damn Burgers (I couldnt believe they were allowed to put up that sign), and Ray's Hell Burger.

But when I visit Cincy,  I need a bag of White Castles and some Gold Star Chili!

And now I need to learn Spanish too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


04/08/18 01:16 AM #3474    

 

Philip Spiess

An awkward local promotion, here in northern Virginia:  the local Burger King franchise advertised on its sign its newest feature:  "Try our Anus Burger!"  Unfortunately, as you can see, someone left the "g" out of the middle of their announcement -- a "juicy" burger, no doubt.

Also, Bruce, we were in swimming class together at WHHS, so I don't think you have BIG BUNS, whether in northern Virginia or elsewhere. (But I did enjoy having Five Guys hamburgers with you the day we went to shoot off your rockets, which my son would like to do with you some day when he's in town.)


04/08/18 09:49 AM #3475    

 

Ann Shepard (Rueve)

I’m still quite fond of of Frisch’s Big Boy, although the franchise is no longer locally owned and, a sacrilege to many, no longer serves Coke, only Pepsi. The tartar sauce is still the same. 

My favorite burger shop, Five Guys Burgers And Fries, opened its first store near the UC campus shortly after President Obama made the burgers famous by personally delivering a greasy bag of those burgers and fries to his staff. Another store opened around the corner from my house, and it was a favorite destination whenever my grandsons and I had outings. We even found a Five Guys while on spring break on the way to Gatlinburg. 


04/08/18 11:36 AM #3476    

 

Jeff Daum

Dale, I believe Frisch's Big Boy actually started in Cincinnati.  According to Frisch's history "

Frisch's Menu Cover circa 1955.jpg
Frisch's Menu Cover circa 1955. Photograph courtesy of Frisch's Archives copyright Frisch's Restaurants, Inc. 2008, with Karen Maier's approval.

In 1923, upon his father's death, David Frisch began to operate his father's restaurant in Cincinnati, Ohio. He continued to do so for the next nine years, before he sold the business to two of his brothers. That same year, Frisch decided to open a new restaurant in Oakley, Ohio, and six years later, he began a second restaurant in Norwood, Ohio, directly across the street from his father's old establishment. Unfortunately for Frisch, he went bankrupt that same year due to the expenses of operating two restaurants.

In 1939, Frisch, having learned from his earlier experiences, was back in the restaurant business, managing a restaurant in Fairfax, Ohio, known as the Mainliner. This establishment was the Cincinnati area's first drive-in eatery and eventually became the first Frisch's Big Boy restaurant. In 1944, Frisch, with financial backing from Fred Cornuelle, opened a second restaurant.

In 1947, Frisch formally established Big Boy restaurants. The previous year, he had met a man named Bob Wian while on a trip to Los Angeles, California. From Wian, Frisch learned about stacking two hamburger patties together. Thus, the Big-Boy hamburger was invented. Frisch's first Big Boy Restaurant was located in Cincinnati, but he eventually opened, per an agreement with Wian, eateries in Kentucky, Indiana, and Florida as well. "

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Frisch%27s_Big_Boy


04/08/18 12:00 PM #3477    

 

David Buchholz

To echo Gail on In n' Out.  It isn't just a hamburger, and as such, should not be considered in competition with any other hamburger.  In n' Out is a lifestyle.  When new franchises open often police are hired to deal with the massive crowds that accompany an opening.  It's like a hamburger Woodstock.  Although the menu is sparse, with only three or four items available, there is a not-so-secret menu with dozens of items available, and it is up to the consumer to discover the menu.  I'm sure employees have to go through some serious training to memorize the options that In n' Out aficianodos bring to the counter.  For example, the double-double is the standard fare, but I always order it "protein style", which means that it's encapsulated within a large lettuce leaf that looks more like a clamshell than anything else, thereby reducing the caloric intake by about 33%.  Since a double-double (on the menu) includes two patties and two pieces of cheese, then why not a 3x3?  Or a 6x6?

At one time there was no limit to the size of the burger. One guy ordered a 24 x 24, but then someone wanted to close out the discussion and spent $97 on a 100x100.

The meat is fresh.  You can stand at the counter and watch as your potato is sliced and sent into the fryer.  You can also download the secret menu, so that the next time you visit California you can try to trick the person who takes your order.

https://www.rather-be-shopping.com/blog/2015/06/16/in-n-out-burger-secret-menu/

 


04/08/18 01:25 PM #3478    

 

Dale Gieringer

Superb photography, Dave!

Here's Wikipedia's take on Big Boy:

Big Boy Restaurants International, LLC is an American restaurant chainheadquartered in WarrenMichigan, in Metro Detroit.[4] Frisch's Big Boy Restaurants is a restaurant chain with its headquarters in CincinnatiOhio. The Big Boy name, design aesthetic, and menu were previously licensed to a number of regional franchisees.

Big Boy was started as Bob's Pantry in 1936 by Bob Wian in GlendaleCalifornia.[5]:11 The restaurants became known as "Bob's", "Bob's Drive Ins",[6][7] "Bob's, Home of the Big Boy Hamburger",[7] and (commonly as) Bob's Big Boy. It became a local chain under that name and nationally under the Big Boy name, franchised by Robert C. Wian Enterprises. Marriott Corporation bought Big Boy in 1967.

** Frisch's was always my favorite hamburger spot.  I was especially fond of their strawberry pie w/ whipped cream.   My first experience with LA-style car bellhop dining was at the Frisch's on Reading Rd, a popular weekend hangout for us HS kids old enough to drive.    White Castles were always a snack, not a hamburger.  The most luscious hamburgers in Cincinnati - fat, juicy, with egg whites and spices mixed into the meat  -  were served at the Lamplighter in the old Sinton Hotel;  but that was a restaurant, not a burger joint.   My most disappointing burger experience was at the first McDonald's I ever visited,  which opened on North Bend Rd. when they were still advertsing " over 150 million sold" (a number since inflated into the multiple billions before finally being dropped from their signs).  Their burgers sorely lacked Frisch's tartar sauce and other fixings, just mustard and catsup, and at $.15 cost nearly twice a White Castle, but without the unique WC savor of sawdust.

 


04/08/18 02:00 PM #3479    

 

Paul Simons

I have to very briefly thank one and all for this info and photos and especially thank Phil for the much-needed comic relief. Where I am is not far from DC where they might tell you it's a Nothingburger but then it turns out to be an Assburger Deluxe with extra cheese.

04/08/18 02:33 PM #3480    

Thomas Lounds Jr.

Hi gang. Good to hear from TeeDee. Debbie Spelman (relation?) was one of my classmates in'56.  Love the talk about white Castles, Graeters and Skyline etc.  unfortunately, it airways seems to fall on my shoulders to remind you of the scar tissue that a good deal,of us developed in some of what I would call the early days of Cincinnati.  Frisches (?)  hit the scene like an atom bomb, and it was delicious, but we (colored? Negroes? African?, those people?, etc.) were not allowed to eat inside!  Some times in retaliation, we ( those same colored, Negroes, etc.) would come in droves, sometimes by the carload, order a ton of food, then drive off just as it was being delivered in our waiting vehicles--one of which was my vaunted '46 Dodge that I once forgot to drive home from school.  The thing to remember though, is that we endured those days and that we will survive the vestiges of it even in the 21st century. P.S. Just noticed White Castle in pushing their frozen sliders here in Spartanburg, SC.  I am on my way to IIngles.  Let you know if it meets our standards.


04/09/18 12:12 PM #3481    

 

Becky Payne (Shockley)

Thanks, Tom, for reminding us of the racist legacy from those days (which unfortunately is still lurking today). I remember your classes fondly (even though dissecting fetal pigs was never my favorite activity!) and appreciate your service as our Freshman Advisor. I don't visit this site as regularly as some of my classmates, but I've really enjoyed reading your posts - learned a lot of history from them! Take care -

Becky Shockley


04/09/18 12:34 PM #3482    

 

Paul Simons

Good for me as well to hear your (written - typed?) voice Mr. Lounds. And to echo what Becky said - it does appear that a great many in this country still haven't learned their lesson about how being a white supremacist racist is not a good or right or moral or religious way to live. What's really a shame - more like an outrage - is that some who occupy religious pulpits justify that thinking and behavior. However we have been requested to refrain from political discourse on these pages so I will limit myself to pre-fast-food Cincinnati. I would like to remind any who are interested about Frisch's fish sandwiches. They were fabulous. Real fish, solid, round LOGS - not sticks or wafers or slabs. And great tartar sauce.

When I look at Dave's photos of gargantuan hamburgers, and observe what's in my own refrigerator, and then look at a TV screen showing Syrian and Rohinga refugees with NOTHING, nothing to eat, no clothes except what they're wearing, noplace to live, I ask myself what the heck is going on, how can this be. And it is. Those whose lives allow them to read these pages, myself included, are phenomenally lucky.


04/09/18 01:27 PM #3483    

 

Dale Gieringer

Tom -  Thank you for enlightening me about Frisch's segregationist policy. Do you have any idea when they stopped?  I thought that kind of stuff was illegal in Ohio when we were in school. Evidently I was wrong.  

 


04/09/18 02:21 PM #3484    

 

Ann Shepard (Rueve)

I too want to say thank you to Tom for his taking the blush off the hindsight of our collective memories of Cincinnati. I had never thought about it at the time, but as a kid, I don't ever recall dining inside a Frisch's restaurant, just ordering from the car.

I think I've shared this story before, but worthy of a repeat.  I attended Evanston Elementary School, which offered no prepared lunches. Kids packed a lunch in a metal lunch box with matching thermos (my daily lunch consisted of my mom's homemade chili and a sandwich of grape preserves on Butternut bread, my lunch box was "Space Cadets"), or went home for lunch, or bought lunch in the neighborhood. There was a White Castle's right across the street at Dana and Montgomery. The white kids went to a restaurant across the street, further down Dana, called the Dairy Bar, where they got milk shakes, fries, and REAL burgers. The "colored" children weren't allowed inside until I was in the sixth grade.

I don't know if anyone remembers, Frisch's had a competitor, Big Sixty Shops. Their double hamburger was called "The Big Sixty". At one time, Frisch's, as Dale pointed out, had a restaurant in Norwood. It was at the corner of Smith Rd. and Duck Creek Rd. Sixty Second Shops had a restaurant further west, on Duck Creek.  The two restaurants switched locations. The Duck Creek Frisch's was the one I went to frequently.  As for Frisch's fish sandwiches, they were made with halibut. They're made with "logs" of cod these days, but are still quite tasty. 


04/09/18 05:29 PM #3485    

Henry Cohen

Ann, I think they were called Sixty Second Shops, they promised to make your order in 60 seconds. They could take your order, fix it and make sure you got lots of empty calories and virtually no nutrition in one minute. The American dream for sure. I think two of the Meier siblings still own one or two of the stores. I worked as a consultant for them for many years. Hank


04/09/18 08:22 PM #3486    

 

Bruce Fette

Henry,

For many years we have enjoyed buying Meier's non-acholic Cold Duck, available at Safeways in Arizona.

Then it became non-available at Safeway, so we bought it directly from Meiers mail order.

last winter, it is no longer available on the web site.

Can you find out why this wonderful product is no longer available?

I tried asking by email and phone but didnt get  a response.

Thanks,

Bruce

 

 

 

 


04/09/18 09:13 PM #3487    

 

Jeff Daum

Sorry Bruce, all ducks have taken to drinking hard stuff now. wink  Sorry, couldn't help myself...


04/09/18 09:22 PM #3488    

 

Ann Shepard (Rueve)

Thanks Henry!


04/09/18 11:55 PM #3489    

 

Philip Spiess

Wow!  Suddenly a lot to respond to here!

First off, of course, is Thomas Lounds, who raises the only truly serious issue here.  Mr. Lounds, please keep telling us these historically factual truths, because we, the white "intelligentsia" of our generation (so we like to think of ourselves, but I speak only for myself) have known nothing about most of this. When you mentioned the story of the swimming pools at WHHS being drained for Friday swim classes for the African-American students, I was stunned (although it was sort of confirmed by my mother -- Class of 1939 -- when I questioned her), but I was not surprised.  (In my years at WHHS, my sister, a year older, and I were somewhat baffled by our parents telling us, "Oh, you don't date black people!"  As Christians in church, we were taught that all people were equal, and relevant and good, under God, but somehow this didn't always play out in real life.)  These were also the years (early 1960s) when black "block-busting" -- selling houses to African-Americans on "white" streets, thus supposedly significantly reducing the real estate values of houses, and destroying the neighborhood -- was a prevalent issue in Clifton (as was, at the time, I might add, keeping blacks out of Clifton Meadows Swim Club).  And Ann, as well as Tom, I never knew about the fast food restaurant issues; it seems bizarre, as much of the food could have been take-out (but, as you say, you couldn't eat inside, which sounds so very Southern segregation in the North!).  I was also shocked when my family went to a movie theater in Lewisburg, West Virginia, circa 1961, and my father and I sat in the balcony as a good place to view the film ("South Pacific"?), when my mother called us back down to the first floor, saying to my father, "Phil, you know the balcony's for blacks!" -- referring to the World War II time they had spent in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.  (But West Virginia was theoretically in the North?) [The Smithsonian's National Museum of American History's had an exhibit on the northern migration of blacks in the 1910s-1920s, which included -- an actual object -- the front of a railway station with separate entrances marked for "Blacks" or Whites" -- you could not continue through the exhibit until you had decided whch entrance you were going to go through (I went through the "Blacks," just to say).]

I have no memory of Sixty Second Shops (if I ever did, they were only in my memory for about sixty seconds), but the earliest Frisch's Big Boy drive-in and restaurant I remember was on Central Parkway next to the building (a very white building with rounded corners, suggesting it was Art Moderne in style) that was first an ice cream factory and later became a casket showroom (go figure!  chill out?). Within a few years, however, Frisch's had moved south [?] around the curve in Central Parkway to the larger restaurant location where it may still be.  That was the one we usually went to from Clifton.

Paul:  My note may have been comic relief, but it was true enough -- my son has a slide of the Burger King sign.  (And much earlier, in Washington, D. C.'s Georgetown district, a 1970s shopping block development called "Canal Square" because it was adjacent to the Chesapeake & Ohio Canal, grew decrepit and the "C" dropped from its sign, leaving its entrance on M Street reading "Anal Square.")

Dale:  Do you, or anybody else, remember "Father Guido Sarducci"'s schtick on the Johnny Carson Tonight Show, where he was talking about "Bob's Big Boy" getting rid of the "Big Boy" symbol?  It was:  "Big Boy -- will he stay or go?"  (It was fairly funny.)  And yes, the first McDonald's I remember was that one on North Bend Road, just west of the intersection with Winton Road.

I've mentioned once or twice in these pages the B/G restaurants in downtown Cincinnati ("The home of the bottomless cup" -- meaning coffee); their mayonnaise was the most exquisite in the city, regardless of whether it was on the "B/G" sandwich or "The Wiz"!  And then there was the Temple Delicatessen across from Shillito's; its egg salad, or tongue, or pastrami sandwiches were superb, as was its Kreplatz soup.  And the Colony Restaurant, on Walnut, I believe, just south of Fountain Square, was our family's favorite as I was growing up -- not to mention (as I think I have before) the Central Oyster House (with its sawdust floors and stamped-tin ceiling) on Fifth Street, east of Fountain Square.

Bruce:  I just checked out Meier's Wine Cellars, Silverton. Ohio, on the Internet and well!  they now make a lot of different wines than they did thirty years ago.  I well remember Cold Duck; it was easy to get drunk on that stuff in college, that and Port or Ginger Wine Toddies -- if you drank water with headache pills the next morning for your hangover, the water remixed with the Port in your body and you became drunk all over again!

And now I want to remind the administrators of this Forum -- Gail Weintraub Stern or Dick Winter or Ira Goldberg, or whoever, that there is a goldmine of our generation's contemporary history and reminiscences being recorded on this site -- and that it should be preserved, not only for Walnut Hills High School archives of its students, but also for Cincinnati, Ohio, and national history archives as well.


04/10/18 08:14 AM #3490    

 

Paul Simons

In line with your idea Phil that this is a historical document that our progeny may find interesting I think it should be noted that we are intentionally pretty much avoiding the contentious politics of the day although I think that we agree that climate science is real, global warming is real, kids, if you’re reading this and New York and LA and Miami and New Orleans and Galveston are under water, well Tom Lounds taught us science well enough that we tried but just didn’t have the power and influence to right the wrongs. Then about Cincinnati restaurants does anyone remember The Hub and The Wheel downtown? They had platters of free salad - maybe “pepper hash” - and this business-is-good, no need to overcharge ambience that is rare these days but still exists here and there.

 


04/10/18 11:07 AM #3491    

 

Gail Weintraub (Stern)

Phil, a quick note to correct your naming of our website administrators. We are Richard Winter, Larry Klein and myself. Ira is a great guy but doesn't work on our website.


04/10/18 02:17 PM #3492    

Bonnie Altman (Templeton)

Thanks Tom and Anne for enlightening us on the segregation issues that you experienced. 


04/10/18 07:32 PM #3493    

 

Jerry Ochs

As learners of Latin, the de facto in de-facto segregation tells us there were no laws (de jure) that blocked certain people from entering certain barber shops, restaurants, movie theaters, swimming pools, country clubs, taxi cabs, or entire neighborhoods.  In 1958, when we started seventh grade, WHHS was NOT a certain place where certain people didn't belong, and I am sure we are all better people because of it.


04/11/18 12:23 AM #3494    

 

Ann Shepard (Rueve)

Jerry, you are so right about Walnut Hills and especially our class. We were, and still are, a group of people who learned to tolerate and, in many cases, accept our differences. 

Now, getting back to Frisch’s, a Big Boy museum will be opening tomorrow: https://amp.cincinnati.com/amp/501934002


04/11/18 12:39 AM #3495    

 

Philip Spiess

Gail:  Thanks for the correction.  And Ann:  Where's the beef?  Apparently at the Big Boy Museum.


04/12/18 02:34 PM #3496    

 

Paul Simons

And a few words of thanks to Ann for the Frisch's photographic memorabilia, including the link between that chain, their product, and the Cincinnati Reds. Who just lost a couple of games here, to the Phillies. And Pete Rose, one of the icons, played for both cities. And never bet against his own team. And belongs in the Hall of Fame if anyone does. Who knows if he dined at Frisch's, I sure don't. However I dined one time at Jack & Klu's Steakhouse. Ted Kluszewski. Unforgettable names and people.


04/18/18 11:45 PM #3497    

 

Philip Spiess

Paul:  I quite agree with you that Pete Rose belongs in the National Baseball Hall of Fame.  I was working in Cooperstown (for the New York State Historical Association), and living behind the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1972, when I met my future wife Kathy, but I never got to first base with her at the time.

And, now, a new topic:  Who is your favorite novelist or writer (19th or 20th century or both, or some other time period entirely), and who is your favorite poet (19th or 20th century or both, or some other time period entirely), and what is your favorite work(s) of theirs?


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